If you are a reader of online news for piping, drumming and pipe bands, you will be aware of the many changes that are happening in some of Canada's best-known pipe bands. This trend is also prevalent in Scotland, and last year as a member of ScottishPower, I was amazed at how much chatter there was about who was going where on the weekend of the Cowal Games. It was in the lead-up practices to Cowal, and in Dunoon, that people started broadly discussing changes to bands such as Shotts.And of course, we have been there, too. Just last year at this time, we were facing the prospect of losses...members going to other bands, taking a break and of course some "not going to other bands" who really were, and even when asked outright, still chose to make excuses about work and money rather than just say they had other plans. Wow. Talk about burning your bridges. There's even a theme song for that story! ; )
But, a spring and early summer of hard work, gain some members, develop some players, and possibly the best band trip yet—results notwithstanding—and here we are in the fall, with a stable membership, a little money in the bank, and quite a bit of work and fun ahead of us.
The first band practice was Sunday, and we had a solid turnout, played some potential new material, and worked on some MSR details, and also talked about plans for the 2008-09 season. At this point we have one US trip on the books, some local performances, some spring contests, and we are developing plans for some exciting travel in 2009.
We capped it with a beer on the deck of O'Hanlon's Pub, on perhaps the last truly warm Sunday afternoon of the near-to-last day of summer. It was a great way to start. Having been through lots of uncertainty with the band, I can only wish "best of luck" to all those bands and players experiencing changes and uncertainty for the coming season. It's never easy getting a large group of people all focussed on the same things and going in the same direction. It's tough.
However, we seem to be in the fortunate position of having a semi-stable starting point, for the first time in three years. Feels pretty good.
47 comments:
New season just around the bend, hopefully some more great memories...or scars that go along with no memory of the incident. Can't wait for the Oct.17 weekend to get back at it in the group. I
think that the band should come out West this year and beat the pants off Rocky Mountain, just to say welcome to the grade.
See everyone on the 17th.
Intersting-RMPB-and new leadership-What grade will CRPB play in for-08-09 season?
Good question, "anonymous." What do you suggest?
Why would RMPB have any bearing on how we go about the season? CRPB is assigned to grade 2 so there is really no debate about what grade to play, we haven't lost any members in fact we are starting off even stronger than last year. It's the return of the COR (what a great pun).
Easy Mr.Ross-Just a simple question regarding crpb and the grade they will play in -please do not be defensive. WE ONLY WISH THE BEST FOR THE BAND.
Anonymous,
I'm not upset, my answer isn't defensive as much as insightful. Personally I really think the band is going in the right direction.
We might not have gotten the result we wanted last year, but the band went out and put on some quality performances that show how much potential there is, and we had a lot of fun. Realistically building on last year will just strengthen the band. There's a good thing growing in Regina right now, why not try and be part of it?
Great stuff the crpb is alive and well-should be some great competition across the prairies this season-my money is on rmpb with wsapb second and crpb third.Let the games begin.
Anonymous,
A little early in the year to be casting such lofty assumptions. Lets wait and see what the bands bring to the field. Maybe we'll actually make sure RMPB is competing in Grade 2 by then, and not slugging it out with E&D in grade 3.
"The Games" are a long way off. The CRPB clearly has a whack of work to do based on the Maxville result, Winnipeg has to re-assemble the entire drum corps after the loss of the L/D and all the players, and Rocky Mountain have a promising line-up but have yet to play a note in the grade. What's to get excited about? Maybe the Grade 4 contests there hold more drama?
Well Anonymous,
I think you were actually fairly clear about what there is to get excited about in the Grade 2 circle.
CRPB has a promising sound and will build off the Maxville result, a return corp of players with the Maxville experience will let us make the "next step".
Winnipeg is rebuilding a drum line using basically their feeder system to give them a new sound. They still have a solid piping corp and leadership.
Finally RMPB add potentially a new band to the mix. Very exciting in terms of the leadership with many younger players in the band. With the least grade 2 experience though, i'd say they will have a hard road to march this year.
I'd say three bands who show a lot of potential to play some great music is something to get excited about. Grade 2 in the praries just got really exciting.
Prairie pipe bands... don't waste your time boys.
I'm going to play with Fredericton.
P.S. Just don't tell okay?
Okay prairie people time to explain the difference between a good grade three band and a poor grade two band.For the record RMPB will soon be a grade two band and currently has the best two-three...... drum corp on the prairies.
Piper people this is fun but do not forget ....not all anonymous comments are from the same person I know that for certain.More important issues will the Riders win the cup?
Happy to see the blog spark discussion, and lots of good questions asked. One way to tell the difference between posters is if you use your name, or even a nickname, such as "RMPB Member" or "disgruntled ex-CRPB member" or "Troll from Local Band" or something... : )
Regardless, thanks for checking it out, and keep posting!
Who is this man they call ROSS? Cheers Bassboy
Uh, well...it's Ross.
In the real pipeband world.....The prairies would have O grade two pipebands.Thanks Tonedeaf.
Despite the aggressive tone [am I reading in too much?] "Tonedeaf" makes a point that applies to all the grades here. Think how dominant Winnipeg's Grade 4 band has been here for the last 2-3 years, and how everyone said "They should be Grade 3!" and yet when they went to Scotland [and I think even added some bodies] they were not stellar in terms of prizes. The kicker is that we don't have strong "real world" bands at ANY grade here, and so it's tough to expect somehow that a Grade 2 band here will take on the world.
So what's the answer? Quit, pack it in, paint yourself green and go watch Americans play for "Saskatchewan"?
I think the only thing to do is decide if you like to play the instruments in bands, and then go do it. It's not about winning and being competitive with the real world [although we all try], it's about making music as well as we can, and providing opportunities for us all to develop and grow as musicians. The outcome of this is that people can take what they learn here, and go to the "next level."
The CRPB has been around since 1992, and our members have moved on to top Grade 1 and 2 bands in Canada and Scotland. They were able to do that because of the experience and exposure provided by the CRPB. Some, such as Ryan Sullivan and Sean Somers, are bringing that top experience back to the prairies, and hopefully that commitment will help bring us all closer to the "real world."
Dear Mr.crpb-My Question to you would be as follows. at one time you were a solid grade two band-some former players- current grade one world champs-however today you are developing greener players would they not be better served by competing in grade three -you could -with the current leadership develop a North American or World grade three Champion.You still would teach same band skills play great music and still have a GREAT BAND SOUND.Music does not change nor attitude just the grade for awhile. A great grade three band can be something special.Especially if you are world champions- think big.
"at one time you were a solid grade two band"
The assumption here is that "Grade 2" is a fixed target, and at one time we were hitting it, and now we're not.
In fact, the standard of "Grade 2" has shifted dramatically, and the CRPB has shifted, too. We are doing lots of things better than we used to, when we were "solid." For example, when we were 3rd at Maxville in 1997, that was a great prize, but we did it with 10 pipers, one who had NEVER played in a competition band before, and a bass/mid section that was thrown together. The snare line was pretty good, but in most respects, that band was no where near as good as the band that played there this summer.
Ask any higher grade P-M if they would take the band from 10 years ago or the band today, and they would tell you the same thing. The competitive gap you are talking about has more to do with the overall rising standard than it does with the perceived falling standard of our band.
If the over-all standard of bands and grade are superior today than in 1999-It makes better sense to play grade three today.Just my opinion-Tonedeaf.
Tonedeaf makes a good point crpb-your agruement for current grade two makes no sense if you are not at the standard today--play grade three where your abilities are.The music of your band is great keep up the good work.
And THAT is the $64,000 question. ARE we at the Grade 2 standard?
I had a very close listen to the other bands at Maxville and Montreal, and to Grade 2 bands in Scotland, and I think we're in the right grade. We're not about to win, but I think the grade is about right. Are there top Grade 3 bands better? Yes. That is true of any grade split, in any jurisdiction. Cap Caval could easily have picked off the bottom of Grade 1 at the Worlds.
Grade 3 on prairies would be a holding pattern for us, not a development plan.
Fair statement PM crpb -However your band needs to compete more often with the prairie bands-time to compete on the prairies not just in Sask and Eastern Canada.Looks like the prairies may have three fine bands competing perhaps in the same cicle this season.---You certainly got fired up about the one time you were solid thing.---We must have a pint together maybe in Canmore -Do you still know how to get there? With respect. Tonedeaf
Thanks Tonedeaf. The past few years have seen me at Cowal each year. This often overlaps with Canmore. We tried to organize a Red Deer/Ellerslie trip last season, but couldn't get most there, and it's a big $$ to take a band there without the L-D or best players. Looks like Canmore this year is likely, so I'll be happy to have you buy that beer! ; )
Oh, and in our defense, we did travel to Brandon last April to play a medley. Weren't actually ready to play an MSR yet! At Regina/Moose Jaw, we had one MSR! It was a huge year for the band in terms of the learning curve for all.
We expect much better this year, and I hope we won't disappoint.
where are you planning on going in the US?
Why do you ask? Like to join? Trip radar beeping? : )
Band is Sunday at the Legion. See you there.
Wow, lots of rather harsh comments being made towards the band here.
My two cents for what they're worth (maybe not much in the current economic climate): CRPB is a great group of people who are keen on playing good music and having a good time. A move to grade 3 would be rather demoralizing (at least, I would have found it that way when I played with the band) and in the end I think it would be rather pointless. What would change? It would be the same people playing the same music. A drop in grade alone might cause some players to leave. I think the grade 2 scene on the prairies will be rather healthy this year if there are 3 bands involved.
Blair Cooper, ex-CRPB (non-disgruntled)
PS. Moderator: I absolutely hate anonymous online posting.
Grade of band is not the issue- keeping the pipeband scene alive and well on the prairies is the goal.Congrats to- world champ-Blair Cooper-Hey Blair statements are not meant to be harse- isn't it exciting to see fall discussion regarding prairie bands for next season-have not seen that kind of interest for years..... GO PRAIRIE BANDS GO....... PS. Moderator-I absolutely love anonymous postings- Cheers Tonedeaf.
Thanks Blair. Glad you're not disgruntled! : )
I'm not a big fan of anonymous posts either. I like to write what I'd put my name to. However, I support people's desire to post anonymously, within certain limits. Criticism of me or the band is fine to an extent, but just plain mean-spirited, angry stuff I don't post.
When the blog first started, some local trolls sent some really nasty stuff, which did not go up. Ultimately, that stuff says a lot more about the sender than it does about the City of Regina Pipe Band.
Thanks crpb you know I am not a troll just Tonedeaf.I love pipebands,long walks on the beach and drinking many cold pints----see you in Canmore, the first three are on me. ------ HEY what did everyone think about Spirit Of Scotland at the 2008 Worlds?--Cheers Tonedeaf.
What is there not to like about the SOS pipeband.Great band for the short period they were together. Made the Worlds even more enjoyable.Well done -SFU- YOU ARE THE BEST!
If you were a member Alcal, then maybe you would not like the idea of the SOS band.
On the topic of grade 2 prairie bands, the CRPB would have a more difficult time recruiting people like Blair (or the many other out of town player who have played in the band over the years) without being in grade 2. A few months ago Richard Parkes answered some questions on the PD website, and his interview was very informative. He spoke about what he did to take FMM to the top. PM Parkes had to make difficult decisions about membership and musical ability. Ultimately, his decisions caused FMM to become one of the top bands in the world today. I think PM Iain follows a similar philosophy with his organization. For most of the 90s and early 00s, The CRPB had much success, and they were considered the top grade 2 band on the Canadian prairies. Like Parkes, Iain needed to make decisions about membership and ability. Those who made the cut (with the right ‘Attitude’ of course) did well. This point is illuminated by the many former members have gone on to play in the world’s great bands. Most of them would likely attribute Iain’s ability as a musical leader to their successes. On the other hand, with every good musical decision the CRPB had to make, there were people inside and outside the organization who received hurt feelings. Some of these people packed it in, joined another band, or talked trash about Iain’s ability as a leader. Perhaps those who Parkes cut had a better chance of finding another band suited to their ability. The CRBP’s success was also a factor in the development of other prairie bands like Edmonton, Winnipeg Celtic, and the ST.APB. Today the CRPB is still fighting the good fight, but times have changed. ST.APB is now #1 in grade 2. Also, the recent news about the RMPB will cause some changes in the grade. An important difference between these bands and the CRPB is that they come from cities with a larger population, and they earned (or will be earning) their way into grade 2 by succeeding in the lower grade. The CRPB has always been a grade 2 band, and its seeming unwillingness to go back down and work its way back into grade 2 may be reflective of a reality the CRPB’s PM must deal with: in order to maintain a pipe band at the level he strives for, he must continue to recruit good players from outside of the Regina area. It is easier on the good player’s ego to go to Maxville or Scotland in grade 2. This leads to my final point. Perhaps people with Iain’s ability are too much for prairie pipe bands. With the proper resources, Iain could form a top level pipe band. But without the resources, his determination to stay in grade 2 may be doing more harm than good. Sure they have raised the bar on the prairies, and other cities are now enjoying some decent bands. Has the CRPB's existence done anything to bennefit local Piping & Drumming in Saskatchewan? Judging from the weak junior bands and competing summer schools, probably not.
"Has the CRPB's existence done anything to bennefit local Piping & Drumming in Saskatchewan? Judging from the weak junior bands and competing summer schools, probably not."
Wow. I think even the disgruntled former members would disagree with this.
There seems to be an implication that things would be otherwise without the CRPB. I don't think so.
Have a look at MB, SK and AB, and you'll see that lots of junior bands are struggling for numbers and success. There are lots of reasons and possible causes for this, but the CRPB being in Grade 2 doesn't--in my mind--seem to be one of them. That would apply equally here.
As an out of town player I can honestly say that my reason for joining CRPB wasn't to play grade 2. Frankly I want to be a better band and solo player, performer and in gerneral learn as much as I can. Playing with CRPB offer me a huge learning opportunity, both Barb and Iain are ex-SFU guys who know what it takes to be tops, not only that though but the band is full of other people who want to learn and improve and that helps drive me to practise more and more. The feedback that I get from them is invaluvable, they are always willing to help. If you can check your ego at the door and listen to what they are saying your playing will improve, your desire to play will grow and you will get better. It's really just up to you to decide that you want to get better. To me there is no band I would rather be in.
I think it's Colin Armstrong PM of LA Scots who said something like you should always seek out the top bands in your area and have a listen, you will learn what they do different, what they do better and how they do it better and in turn how you can do it better. This will help you improve.
With all due respect to CRPB & Tonedeaf
CRPB stated,
“The kicker is that we don't have strong "real world" bands at ANY grade here, and so it's tough to expect somehow that a Grade 2 band here will take on the world.”
And Tonedeaf stated,
“In the real pipeband world.....The prairies would have O grade two pipebands.Thanks Tonedeaf.”
SASPB went to Maxville three years in a row and placed third overall each year against fields of 8-10 bands each year, if I remember correctly .Therefore, I think it is reasonable to say that as a band, SASPB has proven that they are a good grade 2 level band. To say otherwise would also imply that all the bands that they competed against and beat in Maxville over the three year period would be considered less than grade 2. I’m not sure where the “Real Pipe Band World” is located but Ontario/Maxville must be considered at the very least a stop along the way.
And Anonymous stated
"Has the CRPB's existence done anything to bennefit local Piping & Drumming in Saskatchewan? Judging from the weak junior bands and competing summer schools, probably not."
Pretty harsh statement to make even if you have a personnel grudge against the band or your just wacked.
Regina Contest & Sound Advice: two events that have had a tremendous impact on young, middle aged and senior players.
Bravo CRPB and Pipe Major
Best wishes,
Rob Gardner
Good point on St. Andrews and 3x3rd at Maxville, Rob. We all respect the band for its development and its results.
I would say a prize at Maxville is no guarantee of being near the top in the world pool, especially in Grades 1 and 2.
However, 3rd looked pretty damn good from 8th spot! : )
I love that you signed your name. And I love that you're reading it, too!
Has THE PM of CRPB and the band in general helped the the pipeband scene in sask and the prairies-------------NO QUESTION---------You would have to be a remedial Troll not to believe or acknowledge that fact!-----Saskatchewan Fact 101-----You have far less school age children in the province today than, say in the 70's and 80's a difference of at least 40,000 to 50,000 young people-kids today have many many opportunities to participate in numerous activites.----TROLL TRANSLATION less kids + more activities = less youth pipeband players.----Simple Troll math------no one is to blame we must continue to turn young people on to piping and drumming.....SOMETHING THE MACDONALDS HAVE BEEN DOING SINCE THE 70'S----Cheers Tonedeaf.
I have to echo Blair's sentiments ... I am somewhat perturbed by the closed-minded comments that have been made by some lurking forum trolls.
Iain and Barb have the unique ability of training players for a higher stage. Almost anyone who has successfully played with the band has been able to move on to play in other good Grade 2 bands, or Grade 1 bands. To me, this is a testiment to their teaching, and the approach taken in terms of producing a quality pipe band.
The CRPB put their best foot forward this past season; the band could have folded after not playing in 2007, but instead, they went to Maxville. Despite their last-place finish, one might have noticed that they took a piping place off last-year-Grade 1 Fredericton... Look at what happened to Edmonton and District when they went back to Grade 3... they may have won the North American Championship, but where did they go after that?
There is something to be said for forward momentum, and right now, I believe the CRPB has that. Will they be better than last year, this year? The jury is still out, but if I were a betting man, I'd put money on it.
The whole argument about 'not good enough for the grade' is utter nonsense; SFU wasn't as good as Triumph Street and the City of Victoria in 1980, and were soundly trounced by both bands for a couple of years, before the tables turned. One could certainly argue that they were not of a World, or even North American standard during their early years. Should Terry and Jack have packed it in, and gone for Grade 2? If they had done so, I do not believe that we would be referring to them as Five-Time World Championships, or a band who have had more first and second placings at the Worlds than any other band in the past 28 years.
As far as Rocky Mountain goes, I wish Sean nothing but the best in his new endeavour; if anyone can bring the band into competitive Grade 2 range, he can. I also hope that St. Andrew's gets their drum corps sorted out, because they've produced a rock-solid Grade 2 band the past few years, and it would be great to see a good contest on the Prairies.
Glad to have everyone interested in -prairie pipebands-Tonedeaf-Who are you? You rock!Love Pipergirl from Saskatchewan.
CRPB writes
“I would say a prize at Maxville is no guarantee of being near the top in the world pool, especially in Grades 1 and 2.”
I would certainly have to agree with you there. Placing or even winning Maxville would not guarantee that you would be at the top of the food chain in other jurisdictions (Ex. Worlds). I think that a band would need to place consistently at the top or near the top of their grade over a number of years, competing against other top bands (Worlds etc) for them to know our at least have the majority of people believe that the band really belongs in any specific grade for the long haul. One year a band can be strong and the next year it may have to take a few steps back. On any given day a band can play lights out or tank. All this is nothing new to anyone.
I am not sure if the talent pool in the prairies is a problem in regards to putting together a world class band. I would think that there are many contributing factors that restrict bands from MB & Sask from reaching a world class level. I believe the bottom line is to play good music, with good people, the best that you can and it will be a win-win situation for the band regardless of the grade the band competes in.
Cheers,
Rob
Dear - Gregor I agree with many of your thoughts,however -SFU- has many non BC trained players in their senoir band.Yes they have a great junoir program but how many players actually graduate to the grade one band?------It would seem to me that the Triumph Street Pipeband would be the next stop for those who aspire to play grade one. The gifted player is welcome to play in SFU, while the project player with talent is more than likely welcomed by Truimph Street.----------------------------------- For the record the praires have Two Real Grade Two Pipebands-- soon to have Three --well done drummer Gardner and piper Mac your passion and insight have converted me today. I will wait for tomorrow for the result. Cheers Tonedeaf
What has happened to Saskatoon? The pipe-band scene seems to be all but dead.Can't blame that one on CRPB.
"Anonymous 11:48" - I'm sure someone can and will blame CRPB for the lack of happenings in Saskatoon! Just give it a bit of time. No doubt it will be done anonymously. :)
There have been comments made about the dwindling junior bands in SK. Well, this is not just a local problem - junior bands all over the place are seeing this same problem, RMM included. People have all sorts of theories about why this is (the end of the Riverdance/psuedocelt era?) but whatever the cause it seems to be happening all over.
Tonedeaf:
Your thoughts are likely accurate, although, in mentioning SFU, I was speaking about the band from 1980-1983, when they progressed from the low-end of the BC circuit, to the higher end. By 1985, they were a legitimate world-level contender.
I believe that--once you reach the pinnacle of pipe band acheivement--a band has to make choices. There are players who have come up through the ranks to play with SFU, through the RMM program: many drummers over the years; the younger generation of Lee's; Evan Stewart, and Angela Beckett ... While there are a lot of 'fly-in's' in SFU now, there was a point in the 80's or 90's when the band went away from the practice of bringing in players, and guys from Ontario and California, etc, were let go. In the end, it is all about the leadership of the organization doing what they can to produce the best band possible. Given the results, I would say Terry, Jack, and Reid have pretty good instints in that regard.
To get back on topic ... wouldn't it be nice to have an Alberta or Saskatchewan contest attract a band from BC, Ontario, or the states? Perhaps invitations could be sent out now for the Regina/Moose Jaw or Red Deer/Ellerslie weekends?
Wow.... what a thread! I've been following this for some time now.
Saskatchewan and the prairies have to thank Iain and Barb for everything that they have contributed to piping and pipe bands. Looking at the players that have move through their organization is a greater testament than any contest result. Every organization has a natural Ebb and Flow. And, I think it comes down to a matter of resources. In a leadership role you have to make due with what you have, and strive for the best - something Iain has done since CoR was formed!
As for the dwindling "junior programs", I don't know of any organization that isn't facing hardship. I think it comes down to the amount of activities children are involved in these days...and the social aspect of people expecting immediate results with little work.
For all of you sitting anonymously behind your computers, or if you’re just disgruntled... get over it! Take what you've learned from the past and move on.
Even though I only played in the band for a short period, I personally learned a great deal from Iain, and am thankful for the experience. If it wasn’t for those with the vision of success pipe bands would be rare in remote areas and the Nation in general.
All the best to CRPB...and whoever else is reading this upcoming season!
I'm not sure how long all this discussion has been going on for, but I've read through the whole thing tonight (it's Nov. 3), with great interest.
The CRPB was formed, I think, in 1992(ish) as has been a Grade 2 band since its inception. It's my opinion that the band will continue to be for as long as Iain is at the helm.
Iain and the CRPB have cranked out a whack of really great players over the years, many who've gone onto local, provincial, Canadian, North American and World Championships - never mind the solo awards and other significant piping accomplishments. It's hard to argue with results like that.
While this past season may have been tough to swallow in terms of competitive results for the CRPB, there's far more to it that who won the prizes at whatever games. Not to put words in anybody's mouth, but for as well as I know Iain, I think I can safely say for him, it's not all about results. It's friendships, the music and all the "other stuff" that we enjoy piping and bands for.
This past year is a testament to the leadership, commitment, and drive to make it happen that the CRPB is fortunate to have. While they may not have been winning any top spots at big contests, the fact that the band went it did it speaks volumes. Kudos to all the CRPB members, past and present for putting a solid band on the field year-to-year.
The RMPB has full intentions of fielding a solid Grade 2 band for the 2009 season, and the Grade 2 contest will be an interesting circle on the Prairie circuit this summer.
All the best to Iain and the CRPB, Wes and St. Andrews. it's gonna be fun!
We at the RMPB look forward to you bringing your best pant-removing game to the field, Ross.
Cheers,
Sean Somers
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